Docs Nov '09 - Questions

mom_in_il wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

I was looking at the handwritten notes, trace amounts of clonazepam noted three trimes . . .

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21540603/detail.html pages 510/11111, 517/11118 and 518/11119

mom_in_il wrote:Thanks Thinker! You always come through!!

The_Thinker wrote:

I accidentally left off the first page of the list of Cindy's meds which were taken during the December 20th search warrant and released in the Feb. 18, 2009 doc dump.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/3464-3513redacted.pdf
pg 48-49 of 50

ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE
FORENSICS SECTION
REPORT OF CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION

HOMICIDE/SEARCH WARRANT
The following items of evidence were collected from the residence:

Additionally, all prescription drugs located in the residence were documented by Steve McElyea, Seminole County Sheriff’s Office/F.B.I. task force as follows:
------------------------------

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbireport.pdf
pg 16 of 24 PDF / pg 5596 of report

Q59-Q59.1 Hair Mass (1B105, E4381283 & 1B107, E4381285)
This report contains the results of the toxicology examinations of item Q59.1.
Results of Examinations:
Alprazolam and clonazepam were not detected in the Q59.1 hair.

Additionally, the hair sample was screened for the following with negative results:
flunitrazepam, diazepam, midazolam, oxazepam, nordiazepam, triazolam, temazepam, lorazepam and ketamine.

Remarks:
(clip)
The Q59.1 hair sample was not tested for chloroform, as this examination is not deemed probative by the FBI Laboratory’s Chemistry Unit. Testing of the Q59.1 hair sample was focused on alprazolam, clonazepam and other benzodiazepines pursuant to communications between Forensic Examiner Madeline A. Montgomery and
Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia on December 17, 2008.

The_Thinker wrote:

It is believed that the little plastic, heart shaped hair clip is on Caylee's hair in this photo.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbiexpertevidence.pdf
pg 47 of 86 of PDF / pg 9347 of report
To: Laboratory From: Tampa
Re: 7A-TP-71176, 11/20/2008

As listed on OCSO Property Form J-60055:
Item 1 – One hair clip – Q200
Note: Plastic, cream colored, heart design
[Analyst Note: During examination of the duct tape found on CAYLEE’s remains, the Lab
identified a residue in the perfect shape of a heart indicating that a heart
shaped sticker may have been placed on the duct tape. The hair clip is submitted because it has the shape of a heart on
it, for whatever processing the Lab deems appropriate.]

MIZBELLA wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

But what if the day Caylee died was the first time she was dosed with the Clonazepam? If she was dosed only one time, I don't think that it would be detected in the hair mass.

kiwimom wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

It is believed that the little plastic, heart shaped hair clip is on Caylee's hair in this photo.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbiexpertevidence.pdf
pg 47 of 86 of PDF / pg 9347 of report
To: Laboratory From: Tampa
Re: 7A-TP-71176, 11/20/2008

As listed on OCSO Property Form J-60055:
Item 1 – One hair clip – Q200
Note: Plastic, cream colored, heart design
[Analyst Note: During examination of the duct tape found on CAYLEE’s remains, the Lab
identified a residue in the perfect shape of a heart indicating that a heart
shaped sticker may have been placed on the duct tape. The hair clip is submitted because it has the shape of a heart on
it, for whatever processing the Lab deems appropriate.]

It could be. I can't tell what it is. This pic always gives me the shivers because it's taken in the car at night, which seems an odd thing to do IMO.

kiwimom wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

I accidentally left off the first page of the list of Cindy's meds which were taken during the December 20th search warrant and released in the Feb. 18, 2009 doc dump.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/3464-3513redacted.pdf
pg 48-49 of 50

ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE
FORENSICS SECTION
REPORT OF CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION

HOMICIDE/SEARCH WARRANT
The following items of evidence were collected from the residence:

Additionally, all prescription drugs located in the residence were documented by Steve McElyea, Seminole County Sheriff’s Office/F.B.I. task force as follows:
------------------------------

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbireport.pdf
pg 16 of 24 PDF / pg 5596 of report

Q59-Q59.1 Hair Mass (1B105, E4381283 & 1B107, E4381285)
This report contains the results of the toxicology examinations of item Q59.1.
Results of Examinations:
Alprazolam and clonazepam were not detected in the Q59.1 hair.

Additionally, the hair sample was screened for the following with negative results:
flunitrazepam, diazepam, midazolam, oxazepam, nordiazepam, triazolam, temazepam, lorazepam and ketamine.

Remarks:
(clip)
The Q59.1 hair sample was not tested for chloroform, as this examination is not deemed probative by the FBI Laboratory’s Chemistry Unit. Testing of the Q59.1 hair sample was focused on alprazolam, clonazepam and other benzodiazepines pursuant to communications between Forensic Examiner Madeline A. Montgomery and
Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia on December 17, 2008.

Thanks again Thinker. On pg 510 of the latest docs(sorry, can't copy and past the pdf) is where it said "Trace of clonazepam possibly indicated but not enough signal. Will lower detection limit. This was on 4th and 5th of Feb. The results above were on 13th March after it was resubmitted so they are the final results I guess. Perhaps the negative result relates to acceptable reporting levels though so I still wonder if there really is a possibility clonazepam was used.

mom_in_il wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

But what if the day Caylee died was the first time she was dosed with the Clonazepam? If she was dosed only one time, I don't think that it would be detected in the hair mass.

Time for your expert opinion Miz! What would an adult dose of clonazepam do to an almost three year old?

MIZBELLA wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

But what if the day Caylee died was the first time she was dosed with the Clonazepam? If she was dosed only one time, I don't think that it would be detected in the hair mass.

Time for your expert opinion Miz! What would an adult dose of clonazepam do to an almost three year old?

Let me check with the RN I work with and I will get back to you....I also need to find out what the dose was that Cindy was taking and the Milligrams. Be back with and answer soon.

MIZBELLA wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

But what if the day Caylee died was the first time she was dosed with the Clonazepam? If she was dosed only one time, I don't think that it would be detected in the hair mass.

Time for your expert opinion Miz! What would an adult dose of clonazepam do to an almost three year old?

Let me check with the RN I work with and I will get back to you....I also need to find out what the dose was that Cindy was taking and the Milligrams. Be back with and answer soon.

mom_in_il wrote:Is this the second blanket, the pink blanket?

The_Thinker wrote:

kiwimom wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

It is believed that the little plastic, heart shaped hair clip is on Caylee's hair in this photo.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbiexpertevidence.pdf
pg 47 of 86 of PDF / pg 9347 of report
To: Laboratory From: Tampa
Re: 7A-TP-71176, 11/20/2008

As listed on OCSO Property Form J-60055:
Item 1 – One hair clip – Q200
Note: Plastic, cream colored, heart design
[Analyst Note: During examination of the duct tape found on CAYLEE’s remains, the Lab
identified a residue in the perfect shape of a heart indicating that a heart
shaped sticker may have been placed on the duct tape. The hair clip is submitted because it has the shape of a heart on
it, for whatever processing the Lab deems appropriate.]

It could be. I can't tell what it is. This pic always gives me the shivers because it's taken in the car at night, which seems an odd thing to do IMO.

We all "thought" this photo was taken at night, with cars in the background .... but, then the GLOBE and National Enquirer editions were found with the photo NOT cropped, and it shows that Caylee was sitting with Casey in a bedroom! The timeframe is the same time as that party where Casey is wearing a "beer wench" tshirt with the other girls, and the guys (Ricardo Morales) are wearing big purple hats and party glasses with dollar signs.

MIZBELLA wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

But what if the day Caylee died was the first time she was dosed with the Clonazepam? If she was dosed only one time, I don't think that it would be detected in the hair mass.

Time for your expert opinion Miz! What would an adult dose of clonazepam do to an almost three year old?

Let me check with the RN I work with and I will get back to you....I also need to find out what the dose was that Cindy was taking and the Milligrams. Be back with and answer soon.

Single oral dose administration of clonazepam to humans gave maximum
blood levels of drug, in most cases, within one to two hours.
Interference with Cognitive or Motor Performance:
Since clonazepam produces CNS depression, patients receiving this drug
should be cautioned against engaging in hazardous occupations requiring
mental alertness, such as operating machinery or driving a motor
vehicle. They should also be warned about the concomitant use of
alcohol or other CNS-depressant drugs during clonazepam therapy.
Usage in Children:: Because of the possibility that
adverse effects on physical or mental development could become apparent
only after many years, a benefit-risk consideration of the long-term
use of clonazepam is important in pediatric patients.

Clonazepam may produce an increase in salivation. This should be
considered before giving the drug to patients who have difficulty
handling secretions. Because of this and the possibility of respiratory
depression, clonazepam should be used with caution in patients with
chronic respiratory diseases. Experience to date has shown that drowsiness has occurred in approximately 50% of patients. Neurologic: Abnormal eye movements, aphonia,
choreiform movements, coma, diplopia, dysarthria, dysdiadochokinesis,
"glassy-eyed" appearance, headache, hemiparesis, hypotonia, nystagmus,
respiratory depression, slurred speech, tremor, vertigo.Respiratory: Chest congestion, rhinorrhea, shortness of breath, hypersecretion in upper respiratory passages.
Overdose


Signs and Symptoms
Symptoms of clonazepam overdosage, like those produced by other CNS
depressants, include somnolence, confusion, coma and diminished
reflexes.
Adults: The initial dose for adults should not exceed
1.5 mg/day divided into three doses. Dosage may be increased in
increments of 0.5 to 1 mg every three days until seizures are
adequately controlled or until side effects preclude any further
increase. Maintenance dosage must be individualized for each patient
depending upon response. Maximum recommended daily dose is 20 mg.

Children: Clonazepam is administered orally. In order
to minimize drowsiness, the initial dose for infants and children (up
to 10 years of age or 30 kg of body weight) should be between 0.01 and
0.03 mg/kg/day but not to exceed 0.05 mg/kg/day given in two or three
divided doses. Dosage should be increased by no more than 0.25 to 0.5
mg every third day until a daily maintenance dose of 0.1 to 0.2 mg/kg
of body weight has been reached unless seizures are controlled or side
effects preclude further increase. Whenever possible, the daily dose
should be divided into three equal doses. If doses are not equally
divided, the largest dose should be given before retiring.

Chemically, clonazepam is 5-(2-chlorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro-7-nitro-2H-1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one. It is a light yellow crystalline powder. It has a molecular weight of 315.72 and the following structural formula:

Clonazepam is a Schedule IV controlled substance.



Ok, this is what I have come up with doing my own research....I don't think I have to explain what 2 - 0.5 mg which is the equivalent of 1mg of clonazepam would do to a 2 year old, especially since clonazepam is not recommended for children under 18 unless special conditions permit..ie...severe seizure disorders, which we all know Caylee did not have, by Cindy's own admission Caylee was a healthy 2 1/2 year old. In the event that ESOTD did dose Caylee with 2- 0.5mg doses of Clonazepam, Caylee would have become extremely drowsy and ultimately Caylee's respirations would have slowed down and she would have stopped breathing. I don't think I need to explain more and of all the scenarios of how Caylee died, I pray this is how it happened because she would not have been in pain and she probably would have went to sleep never to awake. I did talk to my RN friend who confirmed my research, but this was after she ask me " Who the hell is giving a 2 1/2 year old klonopin".... she also said if Clonazepam is give at this young age for seizures the pill is scored and 0.5mg would be split into peices and given at different intervals through out a day so the child was not overdosed...even if Caylee was given 0.5mg and not 1mg, it still could have been enough to slow her respirations down and slow her heart to the point of death. My friend said it is rare a child is given clonazepam and if they are it is monitored so very close and only is usually given in doses of 0.01-0.03mg a day up to but rarely 0.5mg.....0.5mg is the max dose for a child who has severe seizures and is not generally recommended for a child younger than 10....So "yes" I believe if Caylee was given a single adult dose of 0.5mg of clonazepam it could very well be what killed her. And I also asked about hair mass and My friend said they tested the skin(scalp) that was attached to the hair, and that is where they probably detected the clonazepam in trace amounts, it would not have been in her hair like thc would be unless it was given over a prolonged period of time. I'll see what else I can dig up and in the meantime find me "more"



Oh'' I almost forgot....
Somnolence (or "drowsiness") is a state of near-sleep, a strong desire for sleep, or sleeping for unusually long periods (c.f. hypersomnia).
It has two distinct meanings, referring both to the usual state
preceding falling asleep, and the chronic condition referring to being
in that state independent of a circadian rhythm.
The disorder characterized by the latter condition is most commonly
associated with the use of prescription medications such as mirtazapine or zolpidem.

kiwimom wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:

MIZBELLA wrote:

The_Thinker wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:So Caylee could have been dosed with grandma's meds. How sad is that . . .

It would be sad .... but the Lab said that Cindy's Clonazepam (muscle relaxant) was NOT detected in Caylee's hair mass. Neither was Alprazolam/Xanax detected.

The Cepuroxime is a strong antibiotic.
Protonix is for acid reflux

But what if the day Caylee died was the first time she was dosed with the Clonazepam? If she was dosed only one time, I don't think that it would be detected in the hair mass.

Time for your expert opinion Miz! What would an adult dose of clonazepam do to an almost three year old?

Let me check with the RN I work with and I will get back to you....I also need to find out what the dose was that Cindy was taking and the Milligrams. Be back with and answer soon.

Single oral dose administration of clonazepam to humans gave maximum
blood levels of drug, in most cases, within one to two hours.
Interference with Cognitive or Motor Performance:
Since clonazepam produces CNS depression, patients receiving this drug
should be cautioned against engaging in hazardous occupations requiring
mental alertness, such as operating machinery or driving a motor
vehicle. They should also be warned about the concomitant use of
alcohol or other CNS-depressant drugs during clonazepam therapy.
Usage in Children:: Because of the possibility that
adverse effects on physical or mental development could become apparent
only after many years, a benefit-risk consideration of the long-term
use of clonazepam is important in pediatric patients.

Clonazepam may produce an increase in salivation. This should be
considered before giving the drug to patients who have difficulty
handling secretions. Because of this and the possibility of respiratory
depression, clonazepam should be used with caution in patients with
chronic respiratory diseases. Experience to date has shown that drowsiness has occurred in approximately 50% of patients. Neurologic: Abnormal eye movements, aphonia,
choreiform movements, coma, diplopia, dysarthria, dysdiadochokinesis,
"glassy-eyed" appearance, headache, hemiparesis, hypotonia, nystagmus,
respiratory depression, slurred speech, tremor, vertigo.Respiratory: Chest congestion, rhinorrhea, shortness of breath, hypersecretion in upper respiratory passages.
Overdose


Signs and Symptoms
Symptoms of clonazepam overdosage, like those produced by other CNS
depressants, include somnolence, confusion, coma and diminished
reflexes.
Adults: The initial dose for adults should not exceed
1.5 mg/day divided into three doses. Dosage may be increased in
increments of 0.5 to 1 mg every three days until seizures are
adequately controlled or until side effects preclude any further
increase. Maintenance dosage must be individualized for each patient
depending upon response. Maximum recommended daily dose is 20 mg.

Children: Clonazepam is administered orally. In order
to minimize drowsiness, the initial dose for infants and children (up
to 10 years of age or 30 kg of body weight) should be between 0.01 and
0.03 mg/kg/day but not to exceed 0.05 mg/kg/day given in two or three
divided doses. Dosage should be increased by no more than 0.25 to 0.5
mg every third day until a daily maintenance dose of 0.1 to 0.2 mg/kg
of body weight has been reached unless seizures are controlled or side
effects preclude further increase. Whenever possible, the daily dose
should be divided into three equal doses. If doses are not equally
divided, the largest dose should be given before retiring.

Chemically, clonazepam is 5-(2-chlorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro-7-nitro-2H-1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one. It is a light yellow crystalline powder. It has a molecular weight of 315.72 and the following structural formula:

Clonazepam is a Schedule IV controlled substance.



Ok, this is what I have come up with doing my own research....I don't think I have to explain what 2 - 0.5 mg which is the equivalent of 1mg of clonazepam would do to a 2 year old, especially since clonazepam is not recommended for children under 18 unless special conditions permit..ie...severe seizure disorders, which we all know Caylee did not have, by Cindy's own admission Caylee was a healthy 2 1/2 year old. In the event that ESOTD did dose Caylee with 2- 0.5mg doses of Clonazepam, Caylee would have become extremely drowsy and ultimately Caylee's respirations would have slowed down and she would have stopped breathing. I don't think I need to explain more and of all the scenarios of how Caylee died, I pray this is how it happened because she would not have been in pain and she probably would have went to sleep never to awake. I did talk to my RN friend who confirmed my research, but this was after she ask me " Who the hell is giving a 2 1/2 year old klonopin".... she also said if Clonazepam is give at this young age for seizures the pill is scored and 0.5mg would be split into peices and given at different intervals through out a day so the child was not overdosed...even if Caylee was given 0.5mg and not 1mg, it still could have been enough to slow her respirations down and slow her heart to the point of death. My friend said it is rare a child is given clonazepam and if they are it is monitored so very close and only is usually given in doses of 0.01-0.03mg a day up to but rarely 0.5mg.....0.5mg is the max dose for a child who has severe seizures and is not generally recommended for a child younger than 10....So "yes" I believe if Caylee was given a single adult dose of 0.5mg of clonazepam it could very well be what killed her. And I also asked about hair mass and My friend said they tested the skin(scalp) that was attached to the hair, and that is where they probably detected the clonazepam in trace amounts, it would not have been in her hair like thc would be unless it was given over a prolonged period of time. I'll see what else I can dig up and in the meantime find me "more"



Oh'' I almost forgot....
Somnolence (or "drowsiness") is a state of near-sleep, a strong desire for sleep, or sleeping for unusually long periods (c.f. hypersomnia).
It has two distinct meanings, referring both to the usual state
preceding falling asleep, and the chronic condition referring to being
in that state independent of a circadian rhythm.
The disorder characterized by the latter condition is most commonly
associated with the use of prescription medications such as mirtazapine or zolpidem.

Wow, thank you for all that! It certainly makes me wonder why Casey would bother trying to make chloroform when lethal drugs like this were in the bathroom cupboard. I don't like talk about it, but how could there have been a scalp attached to the hair mass? Surely it would have completely decomposed?